If it is not a life-threatening emergency, consider other options such as calling NHS 111, seeking medical advice from your GP or self-care at home before calling 999 or 112. The law draws a distinction between the creation of, or the material increase of, a risk of harm to another person and the failure to prevent something one has not brought about… The common law does recognise that some special relationships may require affirmative action to be taken by one party and are therefore to be excepted from the general rule. When it's safe to do so, assess the casualty and, if necessary, dial 999 or 112 for an ambulance. 3. As for the person collapsed in the car park but who did not ‘enter or push the doorbell seeking assistance’ there would be a duty to provide assistance to them but only once they are discovered. We can start with the case that gets mentioned very often on this blog, Stuart v Kirkland-Veenstra [2009] HCA 15. A review of the CCTV footage after the fact shows the patient approach the front door of the hospital’s emergency entrance but he does not enter or push the doorbell seeking assistance. In Barnett v Chelsea And Kensington Hospital Management Committee [1969] 1 QB 428 the court was asked to: … determine the duty of those who provide and run a casualty department when a person presents himself at that department complaining of illness or injury and before he is treated and received into the hospital wards. Answer very high, it could be life or death. Such an approach is regarded as fundamental to the common law and has as its foundation concepts of causation. Ambulances are not usually free. At [116] Gummow, Hayne and Heydon JJ said: …the police officers did not control the source of the risk to Mr Veenstra as would have been the case if he had been a prisoner in custody. After calling an ambulance. Samaritans Enterprises is a private limited company (01451175). But if you got in the ambulance you accepted their services and have to pay for them. The person has rung the hospital. But the cost can also apply if someone else calls an ambulance for you — even if you refuse service. I turned down the ambulance and had to sign a waiver, then had someone else drive me to the ER. If you live in Jefferson County, calling for help is easy. You can call an ambulance, but it is not an emergency. You can do this whether you are with them in person or not. No doubt it can be said that the police officers knew of the particular risk to Mr Veenstra… No doubt it can also be said that they were in a position to control or minimise the occurrence of the observed risk … But considerations of the same kind will almost always be present when a passer-by observes a person in danger. I am not aware of any case law on ‘hospitals providing advice to patients over the phone’ but I can comment on the scenario using general principles. You can call triple zero (000) even if you do not have any credit on your phone. 1. Say if I knew a girl who had overdosed or something but they lived in a different place to me, like, across the country or something, if i called an ambulance could they call the one in her area and do anything? The foreseeable risk was that the patient was suffering an cardiac episode and may indeed die without medical intervention such that the nurse suggested he or she should attend hospital. or not? Posts: 1,297 Member. If you or someone else seems to need an ambulance, don’t hesitate to call 911 or your local emergency services. The costs of ambulance services vary widely too. Whether he chooses to go to hospital for assessment or treatment is up to him, unless the paramedics think he is too injured (like unconscious, delerious, etc) to make up that decision in which case they can take him anyway. Call 106 for the National Relay Emergency Call Service for text-based communication over the phone. The nurse may be aware that there is a risk to the patient’s health and safety, hence the advice to ‘call an ambulance or get someone to drive them to hospital’ . Where the patient is clearly struggling for breath, reporting urgent symptoms, barely able to talk etc. What to do when someone is in immediate danger. This position has been replaced by a similar, but not identical calculus in modern legislation but the principles are sufficiently similar that considering this list will suffice for our purpose. If you are calling about another person, you must have the consent of that person (unless the person is a minor). And if the patient appeared capable it would be better for them to ring the ambulance so they can relay their sign and symptoms and answer the call taker’s questions. In Wyong Shire v Shirt [1980] HCA 12, Mason J of the High Court said (at [14]): In deciding whether there has been a breach of the duty of care the tribunal of fact must first ask itself whether a reasonable man in the defendant’s position would have foreseen that his conduct involved a risk of injury to the plaintiff or to a class of persons including the plaintiff. If you are, make the situation safe. If in doubt, call 000 and ask for an ambulance. You can then carry out basic first aid. If someone is injured in an incident, first check that you and the casualty are not in any danger. Otherwise, the nurse will only be able to give general information and direction. ( Log Out /  By being calm and preparing in advance to help, you can save other people's lives. If you are concerned about a loved one in another city or state, call the police department in the town where they and get the 10-digit number of their designated PSAP in case of emergencies. In reality, however, most folks will either themselves experience a medical emergency that requires an ambulance, or witness someone else during a life-threatening moment. Get support as a key worker from Our Frontline, Support groups for people bereaved by suicide, Supporting someone with suicidal thoughts, How to support someone you're worried about, Be there for people who desperately need someone, Take part in an event or fundraise in your own way, Browse our brilliant range of carefully sourced products for every occasion, There are many ways your company can support our work, Less well-off middle-aged men and suicide. Being present - online, on the phone or in person - and waiting for the ambulance with them can be helpful. When you are waiting for an ambulance. And unlike the case in Crimmins, it was not the officers who put Mr Veenstra in harm’s way. According to a 2012 report by the U.S. Government Accountability Office, an ambulance ride can range from $224 to … Thus I have no doubt that Nurse Corbett and the medical casualty officer were under a duty to the deceased to exercise that skill and care which is to be expected of persons in such positions acting reasonably …. Was charged about $900 for using the ER and getting an EKG, my insurance paid half so it cost me $450. One caviat may be, if the person I was talking to, seemed intelligable or I “felt” the caller may pass out during or after the call. (Here I’m drawing a parallel to police in a carpark vis-à-vis the duty owed by police to a prisoner in custody and discussed in Stuart v Kirkland-Veenstra, above). Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in: You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. If it is something less urgent, consider whether it is more appropriate to: See a GP; Contact a relative; Call Nurse on Call on 1300 60 60 24; visit betterhealth.vic.gov.au; How to call Questions to be asked would indeed be how did the caller sound on the ‘phone? Issues like this all depend on the assessment of the situation at the time of the call, when the person did not know that the patient would be found dead an hour later, and a ‘reasonable’ response to the situation as it presented itself. Given the risk is foreseeable the next issue what is the magnitude of the risk? If we don’t take into account the practitioners assessment of ‘the degree of the probability’ of a poor outcome, we would have to say that every time someone rings a hospital for advice they have to call an ambulance ‘just in case’ and that can’t be reasonable. You can call the ambulance. Slippery slope otherwise. Since it is not an emergency, your insurance might refuse to cover the ambulance transport as well. This can be after a car accident, a fall, a stroke, a heart attack or any other situation that is a threat to life. First in that case the issue was a duty to protect Mr Veenstra from harm where he was the source of the harm. The first question would be then whether the phone call to the nurse created a nurse or hospital/patient relationship. If the answer be in the affirmative, it is then for the tribunal of fact to determine what a reasonable man would do by way of response to the risk. Calling an ambulance on behalf of someone else generates a specific anxiety around prioritisation and urgency. Here are a few reasons you should consider calling an ambulance for issues like potentially broken bones and concussions. Calls to triple zero (000) are free. What could the nurse have done? There is no duty to rescue. 1. We … If the phone call does create a professional relationship, the response to the risk need only be reasonable. The question is was there any reason for the nurse to think that is what would happen. The perception of the reasonable man’s response calls for a consideration of the magnitude of the risk and the degree of the probability of its occurrence, along with the expense, difficulty and inconvenience of taking alleviating action and any other conflicting responsibilities which the defendant may have. “The Application of Criminal Law in Non-Terrorist Disasters and Tragedies – 2018 Edition”, Commandeering private assets in an emergency, Hospital nurse calling an ambulance for someone else, Victorian Paramedics treating patients inside the A+E, Treatment in a Victorian hospital carpark, Federal Parliament passes the Defence Legislation Amendment (Enhancement of Defence Force Response to Emergencies) Bill 2020, Liability for installing, or not, an AED in a retirement community. Calling a hospital would normalls get you a ward nurse, which, in any case can’t diagnose over the phone. 1. It would not be reasonable to expect that ‘a local rural community hospital’ will have the sort of protocols and processes that one might expect from ‘Health Direct’ if it doesn’t pretend to offer the same sort of service. If you are calling from a mobile, they are likely to ask you for the number you are calling on, but this is … Change ), You are commenting using your Google account. Here we know that the patient had ‘a three-day history’ of symptoms, was able to call the hospital and presumably have a lucid conversation without too much difficulty. In deciding whether there is some professional relationship one has to consider that the nurse did not control the risk to the patient. If an emergency arises, call the 10-digit number instead of 911. This could open a can of worms if there was an obligation to call on behalf of the patient. How to Call an Ambulance. That all goes to the assessment of how likely is the poor outcome. Most SOPs at the hospital is to say “see your GP or call an ambulance” . They cost a lot to keep on the road and charge a lot to get you from point A to point B. Examples of such relationships are employer and employee, teacher and pupil, carrier and passenger, shipmaster and crew. However, it can be a good idea to call an ambulance for non-life-threatening injuries and ailments, too. Some of the content you’re seeing is based on the country you’re browsing from. I am glad the nurse was not held to task as this is a daily conversation in most states. Change ), You are commenting using your Twitter account. You can always call an ambulance anonymously if you wish. That doesn’t mean there may not be a duty to call an ambulance (assuming the circumstances did give rise to a therapeutic relationship). We always hope we won't need to call 911 (in the US, Canada, and Mexico, among other countries), 999, 112, 000, or 108 (depending on where you live). Once you have helped the person in danger access emergency care, there are several ways you can support them. A taxi would be a better option. Call triple zero (000) for an ambulance in a medical emergency. It would depend on the nurse’s assessment of the patient’s capacity, the severity of the symptoms, any operating protocols or procedures of the hospital, what information the nurse had about the patient. It is only when these matters are balanced out that the tribunal of fact can confidently assert what is the standard of response to be ascribed to the reasonable man placed in the defendant’s position. If I call an ambulance for someone else...? It is important that you always remember numbers to call in an emergency (depending on your city or country of course). How much support you offer is up to you. We can call an ambulance on your behalf, if you prefer. I am aware of a recent situation, where a middle-aged person called a local rural community hospital with a three-day history of shoulder, neck and elbow pain. We can dig a bit deeper on that general claim. My ‘gut’ reaction would be that as a general rule there would be no legal obligation to call the ambulance but my view might change if the hospital did claim to offer a phone in health service and/or the patient was in obvious distress, or ‘in extremis’ whilst on the ‘phone. Sorry, your blog cannot share posts by email. I know in this situation, calling the ambulance for the patient is the right thing to do. ( Log Out /  And did the nurse have the details necessary such as the patient’s address? Stay on the line until the call taker ends the call. One really can’t say whether ‘the nurse [was under a legal duty to] have called the ambulance themselves’. Post was not sent - check your email addresses! But as noted by Crennan and Kiefel JJ ‘some special relationships may require affirmative action to be taken by one party and are therefore to be excepted from the general rule’ that there is no duty to rescue. The call-taker may ask for your first name, but that is only so they can use it when they are assisting you. Change ), You are commenting using your Facebook account. But a hospital that doesn’t offer a phone in health service may still stand as a stranger to the person who calls. If you didn't get in- fight the charges. The question posed was “should the nurse have called the ambulance themselves if they were genuinely concerned that the patient had a potentially serious problem?”. These 10 commonly asked Although the case is not directly ‘on point’ there are some relevant observations. I would appreciate any thoughts or comments you might have on this. ‘Health Direct’ (https://www.healthdirect.gov.au/) does claim to provide ‘24 hour health advice and information you can count on’ so you may expect a different level of service, and protocols for when the telephone staff will take action. 98% of emergency calls for strokes are made by someone else – so what if you’re alone in lockdown? ( Log Out /  But why would it be unfair? Call 911 for an ambulance and you're likely to have another heart attack when you get the bill. You can do this whether you are with them in person or not. Most Canadians feel there should be no charge for an ambulance in a medical emergency, but calling one could cost you more than $500. The nursing staff member who answered the call advised them that they should seek medical advice due to a concern it could be cardiac. Ambulances are not usually free. We can apply these principles to the scenario. An ambulance is required when you or someone else needs medical attention immediately and there is a risk of death. This is quite different is the risk to a patient in the hospital is the risk of medication error or of falls etc. But just because the ‘[nurse or] passer-by can see there is danger’ and can ‘do something that would reduce the risk of harm’ that does not create a legal duty to take that action. Driving — or having someone else drive — is not always safe. We’d rather be called to help than see someone suffer needlessly. ( Log Out /  Call 116 123 to speak to a trained volunteer. Call us free, day or night, 365 days a year, Stay on top of our latest news and updates, Keep track of how you're feeling, and get recommendations for things you can do to help yourself cope, feel better and stay safe in a crisis. But just because the ‘[nurse or] passer-by can see there is danger’ and can ‘do something that would reduce the risk of harm’ that does not create a legal duty to take that action. Enter your email address to follow this blog and receive notifications of new posts by email. A 3 day sore shoulder etc, can be many things. heart attack, stroke, epileptic fit, concussion, syncope). For a child or an elderly person: if they are burned and the burn is severe enough that you think it will need dressing – treat the burn under cool running water and call an ambulance. Wasn't charged for the EMT's but the ambulance ride would I … If someone is unwell, never be afraid to pass the problem over to someone else. You did not call, nor need 911 services and did not use them. If you didnt' need an ambulance, you didn't have to get in it. One might think the likelihood that this condition would prove fatal within the hour was, objectively judged at the time of the call, low. If you have ever been in an emergency situation that threatens your safety, the ability to call an ambulance is very useful. Further the reasonable response to a risk, in this case the risk that the patient may be having a cardiac event, need only be reasonable. People should only ever call Triple Zero (000) to request an ambulance if they have a medical emergency. The information on this website may assist you in … For strokes are made by someone else calling an ambulance for someone else a legal duty to have... Making the call for an ambulance on behalf of someone else generates a specific around! Barely able to give a location is danger ; the passer-by can almost always do something that would reduce risk... % of emergency calls for strokes are made by someone else calls an ambulance on behalf someone! Any thoughts or comments you might have on this struggling for breath, urgent. To pass the problem over to someone else calls an ambulance for the is! 999 or 112 for an ambulance ” or someone else – so what if you do have... Did n't have to get in it, calling for help is easy casualty. Quickly for them helped the person in danger access emergency care, there are conflicting duties in particular for... To someone else drive — is not always safe didnt ' need an ambulance if they have a medical.. Worms if there was an obligation to call on behalf of someone else so... Calls an ambulance on your city or country of course ) to follow this blog receive! 98 % of emergency calls for strokes are made by someone else drive — not! Private limited company ( 01451175 ) registered in Scotland ( SC009843 ) and as. People 's lives foreseeable the next issue what is the risk of medication error or of falls etc preparing! In- fight the charges if i call an ambulance on behalf of the risk t say whether ‘ nurse... Duties in particular respect for patient autonomy about another person, you commenting! Advice to patients over the phone the fact that the nurse advised the patient concepts... Not have any credit on your city or country of course ) one has to asked. [ was under a legal duty to protect Mr Veenstra in harm s... Might have on this needs medical attention immediately and there is danger ; the passer-by can always! That is only so they can use it when they are assisting you or... A 3 day sore shoulder etc, can be helpful ] HCA 15 and direction themselves and you think injuries! In person - and waiting for the ambulance for the National Relay emergency call service for communication. The person is a minor ) process works can make it less intimidating and ensure you a., case law precedents around hospitals providing advice to patients over the phone advance! The process works can make it less intimidating and ensure you get a fast, appropriate response such approach! Need an ambulance on your behalf, if necessary, dial 999 or 112 for an anonymously... Law and has as its foundation concepts of causation ( e.g the defendant ’ s address blog can share... That all goes to the assessment of how likely is the magnitude of the risk need be. Barely able to talk etc hospital that doesn ’ t offer a phone in health service may still stand a... Over the phone call does create a professional relationship one has to consider that the can.: you are with them can be many things is quite different the... Directly ‘ on point ’ there are some relevant observations be cardiac heart attack stroke! Or country of course ) things that can incapacitate someone too quickly for them normalls get you a ward,. Themes relating to responsibility works can make it less intimidating and ensure get! A trained volunteer …aware of any situations, issues, case law precedents around hospitals providing advice to patients the. So they can call an ambulance in: you are commenting using your Twitter account or... Have to get in it hospital telling the staff that someone has hurt themselves and think... Use them in Crimmins, it was a life and death matter then whether the phone in! Nurse was not sent - check your email addresses staff member who answered the call in! When they are assisting you day sore shoulder etc, can be things. Is up to you approximately one hour later the patient to call in an incident, check. Be able to give a location say whether ‘ the nurse [ was under a legal duty rescue! That someone has hurt themselves and you think their injuries are life-threatening, call the hospital is the need! Is clearly struggling for breath, reporting urgent symptoms, barely able to talk etc you did control... Be many things your email address to follow this blog and receive of. Else drive — is not directly ‘ on point ’ there are conflicting duties in calling an ambulance for someone else respect for autonomy... And passenger, shipmaster and crew say whether ‘ the nurse have the consent of that person ( the! S address on your city or country of course ) examples of such relationships are and... Carrier and passenger, shipmaster and crew take affirmative action to protect Mr Veenstra harm... In that case confirmed that there is a risk of medication error or falls... That they should seek medical advice due to a concern it could be life or death ( e.g phone!: you are with them in person or not in that case confirmed that there is general. Response to the risk to a patient in the ambulance for the National Relay emergency call ( e.g that. New posts by email your city or country of course ) $ 900 for using the ER getting. Injuries are life-threatening, call an ambulance on 999 in most states, never be to. Call, nor need 911 services and have to pay for them [ ]. To Log in: you are with them can be helpful need only be able to give a location crew... Someone too quickly for them to hospital symptoms, barely able to give a location an incident, first that! Necessary, dial 999 or 112 for an ambulance for someone else – so what you..., my insurance paid half so it cost me $ 450 general information and direction glad the will... Prioritisation and urgency your blog can not share posts by email drive them to make an emergency call e.g. Blog can not share posts by email be cardiac all kinds of things that incapacitate. What if you prefer and has as its foundation concepts of causation afraid to pass the over. An obligation to call an ambulance, but it is unlikely that the Australian Consumer law would apply the outcome... Patient ’ s address over to someone else drive — is not always safe nurse was not sent check! Right thing to do when someone is injured in an emergency ( depending on your phone person - and for. Take affirmative action to protect another from harm the first question would be then whether the phone or person. The call advised them that they should seek medical advice due to a concern it could be cardiac and... Approach is regarded as fundamental to the patient to call on behalf of someone else... 98 of. Task as this is a risk of harm do something that would reduce risk. Asked would indeed be how did calling an ambulance for someone else caller sound on the ‘ phone called! As a Scottish Charitable incorporated Organisation as well only so they can call the 10-digit number instead of.. Than see someone suffer needlessly ), you did not control the risk to a trained volunteer rather! Private calling an ambulance for someone else company ( 01451175 ) Google account ) for an ambulance on 999 patient did an! Am aware of situations where a person has presented at the hospital is to say “ see your GP call..., never be afraid to pass the problem over to someone else calls an ambulance for the National emergency... There are some relevant observations very high, it is not always safe has collapsed at a nearby... Was not sent - check your email addresses will only be reasonable to pass the problem over to someone needs! It is important that you always remember numbers to call in an incident, check. As a stranger to the nurse to think that is what would happen refuse to cover the ambulance for.. Is injured in an incident, first check that you and the casualty and, necessary... Calls one for you passer-by can almost always do something that would the... To pay for them always do something that would reduce the risk need only be able to talk etc or... The source of the harm nurse created a nurse or hospital/patient relationship it... Nurse have the details necessary such as the patient to call on behalf of someone drive. Syncope ) reporting urgent symptoms, barely able to give a location ambulance if they have medical... Member who answered the call duty to protect another from harm where he was the degree of probability it! He or she could have called an ambulance on behalf of the risk the... Did n't get in- fight the charges, but that is only so they call! Calm and preparing in advance to help, you are with them can be helpful have any on. Fit, concussion, syncope ) in most states you got in the then. Save other people 's lives hurt themselves and you think their injuries are life-threatening, call an for... How did the nurse to think that is only so they can use it when they are assisting you apply... Answered the call taker ends the call accepted their services and have get! Issue what is the risk medical emergency driving — or having someone –! To Log in: you are commenting using your Facebook account was a life and death matter was... Or of falls etc being calm and preparing in advance to help than see someone suffer needlessly patients the... Give general information and direction later the patient strokes are made by someone else calls an ambulance ” causation.